18.4.06

After This We'll Cover Sex and Politics

My MILly is a wannabe Jew, which isn’t all that weird to me since my mother, also not a Jew, has this deep emotional/spiritual connection to Israel also. I think it may come from a lifetime of studying the Bible; after all it is all about the chosen people start to finish. How nominal Christians throughout the centuries could have missed this and become so anti-Semitic I have no idea. So we celebrated Passover last week.

We have actually been keeping Jewish feasts day with our little family for quite a while now. We decided a long time ago to dispense with the confusing, misleading, syncretistic North American traditional holidays and what better thing to replace them with than the feasts that are commanded in the Bible and are designed with the instruction of your children in mind and the memory of God’s provision in ages past. Assuming of course that you believe the stuff in the Bible, which we do. Most of the time anyway.

So before I lose everyone because I just dissed all of the Holidays, let me explain. Do you know that the word Easter is a derivative of Ishtar the goddess also known as Ashtereth, sometimes Isis, I think, as well. Did you also know that in 350 something AD after Christianity had become the state religion Christians were forbidden to celebrate Passover, which if you follow these things, is the Feast the Jesus celebrated with his disciples, the context without which communion makes a whole lot less sense, and one of the most meaningful holidays for Christians and Jews alike. Instead of Passover the Christians were to celebrate the resurrection on the Sunday following the full moon, Equinox, which somehow corresponded exactly with the worship of Ishtar and the celebration of some God attached to her, I don’t remember which, returning from the underworld. The Jews had been forced to worship Ishtar and Marduk during their Babylonian exile and captivity, and now Christianity, a faith that owes it’s entire life, roots, understanding of God, and center, to Judaic tradition is now absorbed by the prevailing pagan culture around it, and turns it’s back on the faith that parented it and with whom it is most closely tied.

All right, so that was all background so that my coming rant will make a little bit of sense. You see I have friends that are pagan and still worship Ashtereth consciously. And yes I can be friends with them and love them, even if the over arching stories that we live in are different and we often disagree. These women know what they are doing when they say Happy Easter.

We celebrated Passover on Friday, yes it was the wrong day for the Seder but that’s when the whole family could be there and since we’re not really Jewish, and it lasts three days anyway, we figured it was okay. It was a lot of fun, and very instructive for the kids. The Boy cried at the thought of eating horseradish, which you are supposed to eat so that you cry and remember the bitterness of slavery in Egypt, so we didn’t make him eat it until the second dipping with the Charoset on top, which is sweet and then he asked for more, which was funny and appropriate for what it’s supposed to teach.

The next day we went to the messianic Synagogue where the rabbi so beautifully brought together the deep symbolism of the Passover lamb with the death and resurrection of Christ and it was all whole and complete and there was nothing jarring or inconsistent about the whole day and the day before it. The kids seemed to get it, as they always do when we do things the Jewish way.

Then we went to church on Sunday and someone said Happy Easter to me. I had to chomp down on my tongue so hard it almost bled to keep from snarling at them. I was surprised at the gut reaction I had because I wasn’t expecting anything else, but the several days before of immersion in Passover had caused the celebration of Easter/Ishtar to be almost personally offensive to me. Perhaps I am thinking more like a Jew, hard to say. But I understand why they are offended almost regularly by all of Christendom.

See, if you want to be a pagan go ahead and be a pagan, eat your little fruit buns that were traditionally an offering to the Goddess, enjoy your fertility symbol bunny rabbits and have a good time. I am offended by the people that claim to be of one faith and yet nurture and carry on the traditions of another that is so contrary to their own with no idea of what is going on. Come on people, do a little reading, decide if you are pagans or Christians and then do accordingly.

So now by sharing my new found sensitivity and offended ness I’m sure I’ve offended at least some of you. I’m sorry because that’s not my intent, I have a chronic need to educate, and I can’t comment on something without giving background, in this case a pile.

So, am I being too extreme? What do you think?

14 comments:

  1. I think it's great that you've done research and are following your convictions regarding the holidays. However, I want to speak up for those Christians who are observing the so-called "pagan" holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.) who are celebrating them in good faith. I think of the Apostle Paul and how he was addressing the disputes in the church. He talks about being sensitive to one's conscious and says "Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial." (1 Cor. 10:23). He talks about how eating food that was offered to idols was okay for some people (because of their conscious), but a sin for others for the same reason (1 Cor. 8). The biggest issue that he was looking at was "are you causing your brother (I'm assuming, brother in Christ) to stumble?"
    In regards to the days most Christians celebrate that actually coincide with days the pagans once set aside for the veneration of their different idols: it is Paul once again who addresses the issue of days. "One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it...So then each of us will give an account of himself to God." (see Romans 14:1-13) I think the real question is, "Why are we celebrating?" If our celebration is one that delights God's heart, let it be! It is the Christians that are being attacked when a city chooses not to celebrate the birth of Christ, or say that "awful word"--Christmas (because of Christ being in it), and not the pagans.
    Okay, so what about those symbols of fertility-- the egg and the bunny? My husband and I talked about this and felt that these things could be redeemed to represent new life instead of to celebrate a goddess (permissible, but not necessarily beneficial). We are following our personal convictions and celebrating Christ by observing these days in good faith. You are following your convictions and delighting God's heart by celebrating remembrances of Him. I just hope that you can see the beauty in others celebrating their love of Christ, even if you don't agree with the day or the way that they do it.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anonymous9:31 PM

    We agree with Rachel. A little chocolate bunny never hurt anyone. Now a BIG chocolate bunny....well let's hope you are working out!

    Plus the fact that an easter egg hunt is always fun. (Especially if you can find all the chocolate eggs...there's that "idol" again....unless its that pure belgium chocolate from the Netherlands or whereever you found that stuff...)

    anyhoo we rejoice that though you guys are hippie-freak natural "juice-plus" people, you are able to put up with us 'weaker' Christians that observe the holidays.

    Most sincerely and with the tender love
    of a mother hen,

    Your former Guitar teacher

    ReplyDelete
  3. Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I don't have a problem with the day neccessarily. We did celebrate the seder late. I have a problem with the name of it, and the invocation of an ancient Goddess that I believe is most likely a real spiritual force that responds to the name attached to it. (Remember my pagan friends, they believe there is power when her name is invoked. Why are Christians doing it?)

    On causing our brothers to stumble, the Jews are our brothers, the only other faith that worship Yahweh, those who "have the oracles of G-d" Romans 2 to whom Christ came first. Are we not causing them to stumble everytime we oh celbrate our Lord's ressurection with the name of foreign idols and eating pork. They have not forgotten who Ashtereth is trust me. Are we not confusing things for our brothers just a bit?

    And yes you could try to redeem the egg and the bunny, My mother actually allowed the egg as it was the poor man's passover sacrifice and part of the seder plate and the egg hunt we could pretend is from the search for the afikommen that represents messiah that is done at passover. MY Question is WHY would any one go to the work of making these things acceptable to them selves when the real thing is so much less ambiguous and questionable and much more instructive.

    And by the way calling the egg and bunny symbols of new life is not redeeming them from their original purpose of celebrating the fresh life that the goddess brought, it is coinciding with it, That is what the festival was all about.

    BUt I am not down on those sincerely celebrating in their ignorance, I'm just out to make people less ignorant I guess.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hi Ray,

    I know being to serious for you again.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Anonymous11:16 PM

    Carrien why do you bother asking if you are being too extreme when, by your reply to others heart felt answers, you obviously don't want any imput.

    In light of that I still wish to say that, I think it's perfectly fine to celebrate passover (we did aswell with a seder meal, on the wrong day). I also think we should be searching for why we do what we do and correcting ourselves if we have gone down some bunny trails (Hahahaha!). But I think it's the delivery of your arguments that seems to get people on the defensive. Maybe what you say is true that through our ignorance we are acutally worshiping other god's. But this whole "i had to bit my tounge till it bled when someone wished me Happy Easter" is well, harsh. Don't you think there are enough people in Christian churches who just bitch about problems when maybe God has actually given them a gift of insight and in your case the incrediable ability to articulate truth, that they (you) should share it with love and patience. Don't be an education snob. Just educate and Jesus will to do what Jesus does best. "We know that in all things God works for good with those who love him, those whom he has called according to his purpose" Romans 8:28.

    I always love your passion and it has personally effected me for the better. I still think that sometimes, at first, your words sound harsh but through more conversing they make quiet a bit of sense.
    Love, Atara.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Well, I did have to bite my tongue and I said I was surprised. And I didn't obviously say anything to the kind well intentioned person standing in front of me, I saved it for the blog.

    I do love and value the comments I get here and I don't ask for input if I don't want it. I guess I'm looking for further discussion by bringing up those things in other people's comments that don't feel to me as though they have answered what I believe to be the core of the issue which is syncretism, perpetuated by tradition, and people for whatever reason not wanting to change something that may be wrong, or feeling as though they cannot. I find it hard to believe that people don't find it wrong once they have all of the information. YOu no me I can't abide with contradictions when I see them.

    PErhaps I am just bitching, I started by intending to record a change I had observed in myself and then yes, I did rant as a result of that. I guess I consider my blog to be a safe forum to do that. ANd I think that simply to generate discussion on a subject I feel passionate about and would like to see changed is doing something to change it. I would not be where I am in my thinking about many things if it were not for many discussions that first introduced ideas to me, though I may not have agreed at the time.

    SO at this point. I realize that my tone seems harsh to some, and on rereading I can see how it would be interpreted as offensive. SO I hereby apologize for offending and welcome any and all responses and promise to listen/read carefully all of your replies and let myself look at it from other perspectives. I don't promise that mine will change but I'm not set in stone.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Well Carrien... I have really enjoyed following this discussion. Thanks for seizing the freedom to express yourself openly on your blog. I just wanted to add a few thoughts.
    Redemption: It's my opinion that the devil (being a thief by nature) will steal whatever he can, taking good things and corrupting them. Take sexuality for example. If the devil can throw in lust, the whole concept of sex can become tainted. But, God can come in (if allowed to) and clean away the filth of sin, leaving only the pure marriage bed. (I figured I'd start with the best example.)
    Then you have other examples like the djembe or other African drums, many of which were first carved for the ritualistic purposes. Yet, I myself have heard djembes played by sincere worshipers that I really imagined causing demons to flee.
    The devil even stole prayers and sacrifices from the people of God's heart by adding religiosity and rote tradition. Satan was so successful with this, that God said in Isaiah 1:13, "bringing offerings is futile; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and calling of convocation--I cannot endure solemn assemblies with iniquity." Now, I don't know if 'new moon' celebrations were prescribed by scripture but, offerings, incense, and Sabbath definitely were, and Satan managed to mix iniquity into events and spoil the whole taste in God's mouth! But, I have to believe that all those things can be redeemed. Isn't it the faith of a sincere heart that blesses God, more so than the mode of worship?
    Ok, I know I'm rambling, and I do have my own blog for this... but please bear with me a moment longer. I want to see cultures redeemed and symbols that the devil has tried to steal, to be won back for the kingdom of God.
    There are so many different symbols, existent in other cultures that could have been misunderstood, and used improperly in the past but that still point to God in someway (Peace Child being an example). Isn't Synchronism compromise? But something is Redeemed when the bad is thrown away in exchange for the good.
    Ok, then you have Tibet? Personally, haven't been there, but know a handful that have, and from what they tell me, everything in their culture has some sort of spiritual significance--right down to their clothes. When, I got saved, I burned 90% of my clothes cause I thought they were evil. If a Tibetan gets saved, can they attempt to redeem some of the Tibetan ways? I am not attempting to answer that question, cause I'm not there. But, my question is can we redeem aspects of culture that have been misused in the past..ie: symbols, "holy" days?
    I think God loves variety in culture, and is in the business of redeeming it--even American culture.
    P.S. Sorry for length.

    ReplyDelete
  8. HI John,
    Welcome, and no need to apologize for length.

    You make some excellent points and in general I agree with you. I'm not quite convinced that all of your points are valid or apply in this instance.

    First of all, I loved the book Peace CHild, and while there were planted into that culture customs that were useful to point them to G-d, there were also customs that were simply evil and humiliating and once they had found a better way to live they dispensed with them immediately as evil, uneccessary, and irredeemable. (Like wrapping up people who were not wuite dead and throwing them into a burial house to die alone, or covering themselves in the rotting remains of a loved ones corpse.) I think the question is which is which? HAs something already shown itself to be useful for the purposes of God's kingdom? Or is it something that we are better without?

    I'm all over variety in culture. I agree that things like drums, music dance, all things that apply to the creative, artistic aspect of our existence as human beings and are core to who we are can and should be redeemed though the specific work of art may not be redeemable the artist may always be. I submit that this is a different matter than the form in which a tradition is kept, the name a day holds, and customs observed. It seems to me that these are separate issues. As is something such as sex which was originally a gift of G-d and has been perverted. The Celebration of Ishtar was never something given by G-d that was perverted, it was always a pagan holiday. Passover on the other hand is something that G-d gave us and instructed us to do and if anything is the thing that has been perverted and ought to be redeemed.

    Please explain to me how you are able to see the making of passover forbidden and and celebration of ressurection on the day of Ishtar, a goddess very familiar to the known world in 300AD as NOT compromising to the surrounding culture and not being synchretism.

    ONly we who do not live in a world view where all things are not caused by the spirits have the luxury of wondering if the things attached to the spirits in the minds of those who do can be kept once the Ho ly Spirit enters. I think for one in a mindset different from ours there is much less of a question. FOr more on this read Spirit of the RainForest.

    In regard to your actual question, yes I think that aspects of cultures can be redeemed, but not all of them, neither should we try to redeem some of them. In this particular case what we are discussing is an aspect of culture that has it's roots in Anti-Semitism and pagan tradition. HAs it been redeemed? What do you think? Why if it has is it still called Easter? I think I'd be happy on this issue if we stoped calling it Easter Sunday and started calling it Resurrection Sunday, or the DAy of G-d's victory, or anything that points to what Christendom has turned it to instead of re-invoking Ishtar and needlessly offending our Jewish brother's and sisters.

    Whether or not to tell your kids about a bunny that lays eggs, I leave that to you. Most Christians I know don't do that anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anonymous7:36 PM

    Hey Baby,

    I read that you responded to my response on your blog. Firstly I
    didn't know if you would be upset but then I just thought about how
    I've never been afraid to talk about things before with you.... and
    secondly I reallly don't like how when reading a e-mail or whatever
    how one can't pick up on the writers tone or emphasis on certain
    areas. So I hope you were not offended. I personally agreed with what
    you wrote because I am on my own little journey of discovery
    regarding Jewish custom in relation to christianity. I would like to
    know more about messianic jews. I'd like to know why we are not all
    messianic jews and why didn't all the first christians didn't
    become mj? I was surprised to hear about the meaning of the word
    easter. How come in all the years of me being exposed to "christian
    easter" no one has ever said what you did? Where are your sources, so
    that I can read more on this. I really enjoyed being part of a seder
    meal. It was probably the first or second time I have ever been a
    part, ( I can't remember if we had done something like this with open
    source kingdom ministry.. I do remember drinking lots of wine... this
    may be clouding my memories.) it was beautiful and I have been
    reading more about it. Though I know I could never become a jew for
    many reasons, I wouldn't want to because of all the elaborate law
    keeping, plus I believe that Jesus is the son of God. I would like to
    know if there are any differences in a traditional jewish seder meal
    and a messianic jewish seder meal. I have read quiet a bit about the
    former, do you have any info to add to the latter?

    I didn't intend on squashing your spirit of debate and if that's what
    I did then I am sorry. I hoped to allude to that at the end but
    maybe I did a poor job. I really think you have a gift, one i really
    don't have but am glad when you share it with me. If you want you
    can post this on your blog, I wanted to but I wanted to write you
    with it first before the world and I don't know how to copy this over
    to your blog. any ways ...

    Atara

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hey Carrien,
    I genuinely love your spirit sister! I really wish we could hang out and discuss this in person, but I'm afraid that's not possible, so I'll press on from here. As, I was reading your last post, I was reminded of about a dozen English words that are very important to our culture, and even Christianity whose origins are in various Greek Mythological Gods and/or come from other Pagan traditions. My original intent was to share with you these words and their origins with you, but then I thought, "why would I do that?" If I did that, and in so doing struck your conscience, it may compell you to replace those words with their Hebrew eqivelents. I would much rather allow for you to continue using those english words, with their current meaning s for today, which I really believe does not offend God at all when used that way.
    Can we even stop the meanings of languages (verbal symbols) to evolve or change? The word 'queer' has a completely different primary meaning than what it had 50 years ago. My wife loves the word 'queer' and hates that it's meaning has become twisted. She uses it in the purpose that she sees it fit for in order to redeem it, and I must admit, it sounds cool when she does it.
    Aren't Holidays too, just symbols in our calendar to remind us of other things? I love the Jewish feasts and celebrations that I read about in the bible. Especially the Festival of Booths... I think they're so cool, and would love to celebrate them as intentded, unveiled meanings and all. But, I haven't yet. I also, lament over the lack of scheduled days in our 'American' Calander, to remind us of the things of the Almighty, and things of eternal significance.
    But, I am grateful for those holidays that have become widely accepted by our culture as symbols of Christian concepts. Generally, church attendance in America is the highest on Easter and Christmas! I can't say with any certainty that the majority of Americans go, but from what I've seen, people are reminded in their hearts of something that makes them want to go to church on that day. Most Americans are not reminded of Ishtar on Easter. If I am the pastor of a church, why would I throw out the symbolism of what Easter has come to mean when so many people now understand it as the day we celebrate Christ's ressurrection? The symbols of holidays are intended to point to God, and although Easter symbolism is many times confused with the bunny and all the other crap, people are still seeking God on that day. And, that is what's redeemable! That's why I would want to redeem the holiday. The meaning of words change, and I praise God for it, or we would all have to speak in Hebrew.
    It seems like in Acts many of the Messianic Jews wanted the new believers to follow the Torah, get circumcised, and basically become Jews as prescribed by the Old Testament. I believe that what it comes down to is this--God desires that on the last day, all of the nations, in the splendor of their variety to come to worshp Him in all their unique tongues, and tribes. And, it will not matter on that day, when you celebrated, or how you worshiped. The only thing that will matter is the faith with which you lived your life, and if you put your faith in the ressurrected Lord Jesus, or not.
    And, that's what I'll celebrate, and preach that Easter is all about. If I am the pastor of the church, I'm going to use Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving and any other holiday that I know of, including the passover to get people to listen to the truth of who Jesus is. If they want to come and celebrate the Ressurection on the day that they call Easter, I'm not going to mention the origins of the word or any other meaning other than the one that I believe pleases God(the day we celebrate ressurrection). Is that synchrotistic?
    Sister, the heart of what I'm saying is this, whether from impure motives or true, as long as it is preached that the true Savior lived, is alive, and is coming back, I rejoice--no matter what the day is called.
    Blessings,
    John

    ReplyDelete
  11. Thanks John,

    YOu really should try and celebrate Sukkot, especially with your kids. It is so much fun. That was when I had my feast day epiphany. I somehow realized that God said "Do this and when your children ask you why you can tell them it is because.." So I took my four year old out in the back yard and started building a booth on the deck. He asked why so I told him the story of Moses as we built it, and then we ate dinner in it. We spent the week taking our lunch out there and his coloring from Torahtots.com and I read him Exodus all the way through, until we got to the laws dealing with virgins and I figured that was more than he needed to have explained just yet, he was three. We talked about it, he understood the story and the feast. He asked me for weeks after we took down the booth and had the Torah parade if we could go back out there, and that's when I realized, Duh, that God knew what he was doing when he instructed us to celebrate these feasts, and we are really missing out if we don't.

    You have helped me to see that there are aspects of the day the are useful and redeemable, so thank-you. I still prefer passover as a much richer and deeper tradition and celebration. But perhaps I will be less shocked at the name next year. But for myself I can't go back to the normal North American celebration of Easter, if nothing else because it's so pale by comparison.

    Remember my perspective also comes from recent and continued engagement in friendships with people with whom I must maintain very clear boundaries between my spiritual beliefs and theirs for mine and my family's protection if nothing else. Thus I do tend to have more extreme reactions to this stuff.

    One other thing, that I should probably blog about, is that I want my kids to think like jews before they run into the stories of Yeshua too much. I'm going for the greater impact of understanding much more intimately the context of the things Jesus did, I want them to be offended by the things that we tend to gloss over in Sunday School gospel turned morality lessons and really encounter the material. Since I"m their mother and responsible for their education I get to do it that way if I want. I just don't want them to be adults and have to clear away as much garbage as most raised in the church Christians do in their rethinking and adult understandings of Yeshua.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Anonymous10:13 AM

    I guess I'm looking for further discussion by bringing up those things in other people's comments
    that don't feel to me as though they have answered what I believe to be the core of the issue which
    is syncretism, perpetuated by tradition, and people for whatever reason not wanting to change
    something that may be wrong, or feeling as though they cannot. I find it hard to believe that people don't find it wrong once they have all of the information.


    Hmmph. Don't read the blog for a few days and miss all the fun!

    Here's another, very different way of looking at the same question: God gave to his apostles and to their successors the power to bind and loose (using the Jewish expression which meant something like 'to prohibit and to permit'). As the Church worked through the implications of the Passion, they came to understand that continuing to celebrate the Passover, though not problematic in itself as a cultural tradition, misrepresented the implications of the finality of Christ's death, and therefore suppressed the practice, using its God-given authority. One can question whether it was necessary, but it doesn't strike me as unreasonable, given the ever-present temptation towards a theory of works righteousness.

    It's difficult to take your concerns over where the name of Easter came from very seriously: all sorts of words in English come from non-Christian roots. For example, the days of the week which I notice you use on your blog, many months of the year, and so on. (Some Amish and Mennonite groups are bothered by this and calendars purchased from them use alternate names, so this is a real issue for some groups.) It's also true that some practices, such as Christmas trees, or Easter buns, predate Christian practice in some way. So what? So do an enormous number of our current customs (such as the wearing of wedding rings, the taking of a husband's name, and other quite popular habits among Christians.)

    Syncretism is a challenge, I grant you; but God gave us the New Testament in Greek, and in the fullness of time spread his Gospel through the Roman Empire in Latin. The mystery of Pentecost is not the undoing but the redeeming and transcending of Babel: now the multiplicity of tongues can give glory to God. This allows for the possibility of honest and faithful inculturation, where the Church takes what is good in each society and turns it to Him.

    The traditions of the Church are not infallible, but they are the collective response of the people of God to the movement of His Spirit, and should not be lightly thrown aside in favour of traditions from an earlier time. The Calendar of the Church has been loved and celebrated by the vast majority of Christians who have ever lived, and is worthy of more respect than you're giving it. If you think that the "normal" celebration of Easter is "so pale by comparison", perhaps this is because you aren't embracing the gifts it has to offer. The week of the Passion is full of profound and moving ceremonies designed to bring us closer to Christ: did you follow the Stations or the Words on Good Friday? Or keep watch before the Host after the Stripping of the Altar on Maundy Thursday?

    If your new approach leads you not toward increased love and mercy for your brothers who offer you words of peace in joyful thanksgiving for the Resurrection, but to "[having] to chomp down on [your] tongue so hard it almost bled to keep from snarling at them", then I would suggest that you question which spirit is leading you.

    Happy Easter, Carrien!

    ReplyDelete
  13. Thanks John,

    YOu really should try and celebrate Sukkot, especially with your kids. It is so much fun. That was when I had my feast day epiphany. I somehow realized that God said "Do this and when your children ask you why you can tell them it is because.." So I took my four year old out in the back yard and started building a booth on the deck. He asked why so I told him the story of Moses as we built it, and then we ate dinner in it. We spent the week taking our lunch out there and his coloring from Torahtots.com and I read him Exodus all the way through, until we got to the laws dealing with virgins and I figured that was more than he needed to have explained just yet, he was three. We talked about it, he understood the story and the feast. He asked me for weeks after we took down the booth and had the Torah parade if we could go back out there, and that's when I realized, Duh, that God knew what he was doing when he instructed us to celebrate these feasts, and we are really missing out if we don't.

    You have helped me to see that there are aspects of the day the are useful and redeemable, so thank-you. I still prefer passover as a much richer and deeper tradition and celebration. But perhaps I will be less shocked at the name next year. But for myself I can't go back to the normal North American celebration of Easter, if nothing else because it's so pale by comparison.

    Remember my perspective also comes from recent and continued engagement in friendships with people with whom I must maintain very clear boundaries between my spiritual beliefs and theirs for mine and my family's protection if nothing else. Thus I do tend to have more extreme reactions to this stuff.

    One other thing, that I should probably blog about, is that I want my kids to think like jews before they run into the stories of Yeshua too much. I'm going for the greater impact of understanding much more intimately the context of the things Jesus did, I want them to be offended by the things that we tend to gloss over in Sunday School gospel turned morality lessons and really encounter the material. Since I"m their mother and responsible for their education I get to do it that way if I want. I just don't want them to be adults and have to clear away as much garbage as most raised in the church Christians do in their rethinking and adult understandings of Yeshua.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Anonymous7:29 PM

    Hey Baby,

    I read that you responded to my response on your blog. Firstly I
    didn't know if you would be upset but then I just thought about how
    I've never been afraid to talk about things before with you.... and
    secondly I reallly don't like how when reading a e-mail or whatever
    how one can't pick up on the writers tone or emphasis on certain
    areas. So I hope you were not offended. I personally agreed with what
    you wrote because I am on my own little journey of discovery
    regarding Jewish custom in relation to christianity. I would like to
    know more about messianic jews. I'd like to know why we are not all
    messianic jews and why didn't all the first christians didn't
    become mj? I was surprised to hear about the meaning of the word
    easter. How come in all the years of me being exposed to "christian
    easter" no one has ever said what you did? Where are your sources, so
    that I can read more on this. I really enjoyed being part of a seder
    meal. It was probably the first or second time I have ever been a
    part, ( I can't remember if we had done something like this with open
    source kingdom ministry.. I do remember drinking lots of wine... this
    may be clouding my memories.) it was beautiful and I have been
    reading more about it. Though I know I could never become a jew for
    many reasons, I wouldn't want to because of all the elaborate law
    keeping, plus I believe that Jesus is the son of God. I would like to
    know if there are any differences in a traditional jewish seder meal
    and a messianic jewish seder meal. I have read quiet a bit about the
    former, do you have any info to add to the latter?

    I didn't intend on squashing your spirit of debate and if that's what
    I did then I am sorry. I hoped to allude to that at the end but
    maybe I did a poor job. I really think you have a gift, one i really
    don't have but am glad when you share it with me. If you want you
    can post this on your blog, I wanted to but I wanted to write you
    with it first before the world and I don't know how to copy this over
    to your blog. any ways ...

    Atara

    ReplyDelete

I want to know what you think.

Facebook Share

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...